I personally get so conflicted on free speech and so I’m glad it is not my decision to make. Where is the line drawn? I see the imam’s call to destroy Jew’s houses as hateful but is it not free speech? Then what if it is a speech given while standing in front of houses with torches all around and an angry mob? I find myself saying that I’m a free speech absolutist and then realize-ugh.
Yes she tweeted and then deleted a post questioning why the police would allow their photo to be taken with 'Jew Haters' when they wouldn't allow a photo with pro Isreali supporters. Unfortunately she used a photo of supporters of a Pakistani political party from Manchester in 2022, rather than a photo from the pro-Gaza protests and deleted the tweet when she learned of her error. The Pakistani political party also has a history of anti-Semitic rhetoric btw.
It is a v hard line to draw, but I think it is important not to sweep such language under the carpet. There is a difference between incitement to violence (aka someone whipping up a mob to commit violence and actively encouraging them to do so even assisting them in the carrying out of said acts) and fiery political rhetoric. Does policing language actually result in fewer 'hate crime' incidents as was claimed in the 1950s? The data was not there when MacPherson suggested it would. I suspect it is still not there.
I am far more comfortable with the police policing action rather than words or thoughts.
I also think there needs to be a serious overhaul of how the Holocaust and indeed prejudice is taught as something has gone terribly wrong. Sweeping things under the carpet with policed language is not the right way to go as the new language just becomes as corroded as the old because the sentiment is not dealt with.
Governments in the West needs to accept that there has been a demonization of Jews within the Muslim community and this has led to unacceptable levels of anti-Semitic behaviour. The answer is not to demonize Muslims but to figure out ways in which this teaching can be countered in a Western society.
.
How can one teach about enfranchisement for all when a core tenant of a religion is disenfranchisement for all except true believers? If I knew the answer, I would have built a better mousetrap sort of thing.
In general though I think labelling speech as hateful or forbidden does not alter the sentiment and it is the sentiments which need to be tackled first.
I suspect so. There have been some left-leaning journalists who behaved poorly over this.
I think Pearson had a very hard time and apparently was near-suicidal at one point. The Kafkaesque process is part of the point.
Personally I think the police have no business posing in front of any political flag. The only flag they should pose with is the flag of their country and then not during protest marches.
Free speech is like pregnancy - there is no middle ground. Y'all in the UK are doing an outstanding job of demonstrating that this is so. Unfortunately, we're headed this way with "hate crime." That's breathtakingly selective too.
I think given the reaction of some to Nancy Mace and Seth Moulton, the US has stumbled down the same pathway to totalitarianism as the UK. The infuriating part is the Court of Appeal did uphold Harry Miller's rights to be offensive about five years ago. The police appear to have ignored the memo, in part thanks to some of the DEI training they have undergone.
Unintended consequences of good intentions and vague laws.
You are too kind, though my occasional forays into UK-land (admittedly now nearly 20 years ago) suggested that a previous generation was trained up that way. (Somehow good habits have little staying power whilst bad habits are embedded in concrete.) I am not convinced that DIE and particularly "trans"-ists ever had good intentions -- but were attractive to those with the God-shaped hole and various breeds of opportunists.
I think you are right about DIE and trans activism etc. The UK is more used to the Loony Left as they are sometimes called. The MacPherson Report after the Stephen Lawrence murder had a huge impact on the police. They chose to go with systematic racism etc instead of gross incompetence, partly because of whom Blair et al chose to do the review. And dreadful mistakes were made in that case. Then you had the dreadful double suicide after low harassment.
NCHI were brought in 2014 under a supposedly Conservative government. The Conservatives did a lot to build on the mistakes of the previous Labour government. Sometimes a new law isn't needed, what is needed is to enforce the existing laws and the police to actually do their job.
Bobbies on the beat used to have their ear to the ground sort of thing. And they lived in police housing in the neighbourhoods where they worked. Most of the police housing has gone now. Local knowledge etc is lost to efficiency as dictated by Life's Auditors.
"...a number of refuge FP commentators are hanging out as they dislike the current FP policy on comments."
As one of that crowd, I herewith confess that it wasn't JUST the FP policy on comments; that I probably could have sucked up. It was the wholehearted dive to content irrelevance. Keeping one (sometimes booth) foot (feet) in the Popular Kids' Kamp along with scattered showers (and the occasional downpour) of TDS was getting really seriously old.
Yes I know what you mean. I became a paid subscriber because she did a lot on the Afghan evacuation and its botched nature. I thought -- great an alternative viewpoint to some serious news. Now you do get some frustrating misses.
If you ever want to read a delightful book that captures Iran in the times of the Shah (1960s) from the woman's perspective, I recommend "Guests of the Sheik" by Elizabeth Warnock Fernea. Would also provide good research if needed.
Confession - I always came here first for "This is Northumberland Calling" before going to the FP.
Hello Northumberland! Good to see Ya again this Friday.
Glad to see Allison Pearson's situation turned out alright. But, like You said, the scandals continue. It's real funny what Your police call protected speech. And I'm sorry to read the story of Hannah Ingram-Moore.
And painted portholes and plywood funnels? I was gonna say "surely You jest," but I guess not.
I'm so glad to hear the writing is going so well. I wish You continued good luck.
We had our first slight dusting of snow yesterday. Cold walk this morning, which I cut short to two miles.
TY as always, Michelle, for the wonderful roundup.
TY for the article, Michelle. I guess we have a similar problem over here. But I don't know if American's are willing to pay the price that Sweden does.
Some of the NCHI included a man complaining about his rough haircut. Another over a refusal to shake hands. I am not sure why calling someone 'Leonard is a hate crime. Apparently homophobic?
Another complained about someone not using the correct pronouns (even though guidance specifically says not to record GC beliefs etc as NCHI)
Honestly if it is not a crime, the police should not be involved. Hopefully some good will come out of this.
A damson is a sort of plum -- quite small and difficult to stone.
To make damson gin, I give you a variation of Charles Dickins recipe.
NB I use frozen damsons (a friend has a large tree which normally fruits well) but then you don't have to prick them with a silver fork (the time consuming part).
Put approx 8 oz frozen damsons in a 2 litre kilner jar, add 4 oz sugar, shake. Cover with gin (supermarket own label is fine). Fasten the lid on. Place in a dark cellar (could be a cupboard). Shake every few days until the sugar is dissolved. Allow to sit for 3 months. Strain and bottle. You can leave to mature for as long as you like. But it tastes fine then.
If you want to stone your damsons then as they are much easier to stone, you can use them in A Christmas cake or make a boozy crumble.
You can also do this with sloes or really any other sort of plum. I have successfully made Victoria plum gin and sloe gin.
If you want to make a quick flavoured gin -- try Earl Grey gin. Soak 2 Earl Grey tea bags in half a bottle of gin for 2 hours and no more (any longer makes the drink too bitter). Remove the tea bags and bottle. It makes a good twist on a g & t.
And because I just saw this from Toby Young who is in charge of the FSU. It is a very good explanation of some of the two-tier policing (indeed two tier sentencing) people in the UK have experienced. Consistency should be a watch word. https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/the-police-handle-crimes-against-jews-strangely-leniently-czuxxtrv
Is it known what Pearson tweeted?
I personally get so conflicted on free speech and so I’m glad it is not my decision to make. Where is the line drawn? I see the imam’s call to destroy Jew’s houses as hateful but is it not free speech? Then what if it is a speech given while standing in front of houses with torches all around and an angry mob? I find myself saying that I’m a free speech absolutist and then realize-ugh.
Where do you draw the line Michelle?
Yes she tweeted and then deleted a post questioning why the police would allow their photo to be taken with 'Jew Haters' when they wouldn't allow a photo with pro Isreali supporters. Unfortunately she used a photo of supporters of a Pakistani political party from Manchester in 2022, rather than a photo from the pro-Gaza protests and deleted the tweet when she learned of her error. The Pakistani political party also has a history of anti-Semitic rhetoric btw.
It is a v hard line to draw, but I think it is important not to sweep such language under the carpet. There is a difference between incitement to violence (aka someone whipping up a mob to commit violence and actively encouraging them to do so even assisting them in the carrying out of said acts) and fiery political rhetoric. Does policing language actually result in fewer 'hate crime' incidents as was claimed in the 1950s? The data was not there when MacPherson suggested it would. I suspect it is still not there.
I am far more comfortable with the police policing action rather than words or thoughts.
I also think there needs to be a serious overhaul of how the Holocaust and indeed prejudice is taught as something has gone terribly wrong. Sweeping things under the carpet with policed language is not the right way to go as the new language just becomes as corroded as the old because the sentiment is not dealt with.
Governments in the West needs to accept that there has been a demonization of Jews within the Muslim community and this has led to unacceptable levels of anti-Semitic behaviour. The answer is not to demonize Muslims but to figure out ways in which this teaching can be countered in a Western society.
.
How can one teach about enfranchisement for all when a core tenant of a religion is disenfranchisement for all except true believers? If I knew the answer, I would have built a better mousetrap sort of thing.
In general though I think labelling speech as hateful or forbidden does not alter the sentiment and it is the sentiments which need to be tackled first.
I suspect she embarrassed the police with the words and the photo was just an excuse to harass
I suspect so. There have been some left-leaning journalists who behaved poorly over this.
I think Pearson had a very hard time and apparently was near-suicidal at one point. The Kafkaesque process is part of the point.
Personally I think the police have no business posing in front of any political flag. The only flag they should pose with is the flag of their country and then not during protest marches.
“ How can one teach about enfranchisement for all when a core tenant of a religion is disenfranchisement for all except true believers?”
I suspect the answer to that is that it can not be taught hence the current war.
Unfortunately I suspect this as well.
But England no longer burns heretics at the stake so there is hope.
No they just throw them in jail officially and your newcomers knife people they don’t like.
Free speech is like pregnancy - there is no middle ground. Y'all in the UK are doing an outstanding job of demonstrating that this is so. Unfortunately, we're headed this way with "hate crime." That's breathtakingly selective too.
I think given the reaction of some to Nancy Mace and Seth Moulton, the US has stumbled down the same pathway to totalitarianism as the UK. The infuriating part is the Court of Appeal did uphold Harry Miller's rights to be offensive about five years ago. The police appear to have ignored the memo, in part thanks to some of the DEI training they have undergone.
Unintended consequences of good intentions and vague laws.
You are too kind, though my occasional forays into UK-land (admittedly now nearly 20 years ago) suggested that a previous generation was trained up that way. (Somehow good habits have little staying power whilst bad habits are embedded in concrete.) I am not convinced that DIE and particularly "trans"-ists ever had good intentions -- but were attractive to those with the God-shaped hole and various breeds of opportunists.
I think you are right about DIE and trans activism etc. The UK is more used to the Loony Left as they are sometimes called. The MacPherson Report after the Stephen Lawrence murder had a huge impact on the police. They chose to go with systematic racism etc instead of gross incompetence, partly because of whom Blair et al chose to do the review. And dreadful mistakes were made in that case. Then you had the dreadful double suicide after low harassment.
NCHI were brought in 2014 under a supposedly Conservative government. The Conservatives did a lot to build on the mistakes of the previous Labour government. Sometimes a new law isn't needed, what is needed is to enforce the existing laws and the police to actually do their job.
Bobbies on the beat used to have their ear to the ground sort of thing. And they lived in police housing in the neighbourhoods where they worked. Most of the police housing has gone now. Local knowledge etc is lost to efficiency as dictated by Life's Auditors.
I’d like to apologize for Ellen. I’m sorry she and her partner are polluting your country now. 🙄
Yes well maybe she moved here, not so much because of Trump but the Montecito 2. The one place she knew Meghan will not return to.
It is amusing that she and her partner decided to go to Clarkson's pub though, considering how non-woke he is.
And that they decided to move TERF island. There again maybe she does have boundaries (like single sex bathrooms) and just doesn't want to say.
"...a number of refuge FP commentators are hanging out as they dislike the current FP policy on comments."
As one of that crowd, I herewith confess that it wasn't JUST the FP policy on comments; that I probably could have sucked up. It was the wholehearted dive to content irrelevance. Keeping one (sometimes booth) foot (feet) in the Popular Kids' Kamp along with scattered showers (and the occasional downpour) of TDS was getting really seriously old.
Yes I know what you mean. I became a paid subscriber because she did a lot on the Afghan evacuation and its botched nature. I thought -- great an alternative viewpoint to some serious news. Now you do get some frustrating misses.
If you ever want to read a delightful book that captures Iran in the times of the Shah (1960s) from the woman's perspective, I recommend "Guests of the Sheik" by Elizabeth Warnock Fernea. Would also provide good research if needed.
Confession - I always came here first for "This is Northumberland Calling" before going to the FP.
That is kind of you.
I had not heard of Guest of the Sheik but it sounds like something I would enjoy. I am always interested in social history like that.
Absolutely!
Hello Northumberland! Good to see Ya again this Friday.
Glad to see Allison Pearson's situation turned out alright. But, like You said, the scandals continue. It's real funny what Your police call protected speech. And I'm sorry to read the story of Hannah Ingram-Moore.
And painted portholes and plywood funnels? I was gonna say "surely You jest," but I guess not.
I'm so glad to hear the writing is going so well. I wish You continued good luck.
We had our first slight dusting of snow yesterday. Cold walk this morning, which I cut short to two miles.
TY as always, Michelle, for the wonderful roundup.
Delighted to hear from you JT.
I was so sorry that Ingram-Moore behaved that way. Her late father appeared to have great integrity...
I found this op ed about Sweden's drive to net zero migration interesting. Apparently they are one of the few Western countries to succeed in doing this. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/21/mass-immigration-true-scale-of-our-worklessness-sweden-eu/ or https://archive.ph/PSZqp
TY for the article, Michelle. I guess we have a similar problem over here. But I don't know if American's are willing to pay the price that Sweden does.
Have a good 'n.
And because you have to laugh.
Some of the NCHI included a man complaining about his rough haircut. Another over a refusal to shake hands. I am not sure why calling someone 'Leonard is a hate crime. Apparently homophobic?
Another complained about someone not using the correct pronouns (even though guidance specifically says not to record GC beliefs etc as NCHI)
Honestly if it is not a crime, the police should not be involved. Hopefully some good will come out of this.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-log-non-crime-hate-incident-refusal-shake-hands-6h7tzpf6d or https://archive.ph/3P6h2
TY. One can only hope.
These are the questions Pearson wants answered including who briefed the Guardian and the Sunday Times on info which she wasn't allowed to see. https://x.com/AllisonPearson/status/1859988604379856925
Those a great questions. They should be answered. TY, again.
Great reporting. Better TGIF!
Glad you enjoyed it.
OK, I need to see a picture of a "damson" and maybe to understand how damson gin comes about ...
A damson is a sort of plum -- quite small and difficult to stone.
To make damson gin, I give you a variation of Charles Dickins recipe.
NB I use frozen damsons (a friend has a large tree which normally fruits well) but then you don't have to prick them with a silver fork (the time consuming part).
Put approx 8 oz frozen damsons in a 2 litre kilner jar, add 4 oz sugar, shake. Cover with gin (supermarket own label is fine). Fasten the lid on. Place in a dark cellar (could be a cupboard). Shake every few days until the sugar is dissolved. Allow to sit for 3 months. Strain and bottle. You can leave to mature for as long as you like. But it tastes fine then.
If you want to stone your damsons then as they are much easier to stone, you can use them in A Christmas cake or make a boozy crumble.
You can also do this with sloes or really any other sort of plum. I have successfully made Victoria plum gin and sloe gin.
If you want to make a quick flavoured gin -- try Earl Grey gin. Soak 2 Earl Grey tea bags in half a bottle of gin for 2 hours and no more (any longer makes the drink too bitter). Remove the tea bags and bottle. It makes a good twist on a g & t.